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Forums Beroux.com • View topic - Project connect

Project connect

Discuss whatever!

Answer to task #6

Postby Teachme2play » 07 Dec 2007, 21:59

Hmm. It looks easy but it isn't, although I've witnessed it many times. Blak can achieve a draw, that's for sure. I could look up mustrum, but it wouldn't be fun. So let's see:
A1, B1, C3 and F3 don't change anything, because red can respond with G1, returning to perfect play.
D2 is also bad because of Red D3 - back to "normal".
And, finally, E1 loses, because it is also a return to perfect play (like 1. D1- C1, 2. F1-E1, 3. C2-F2).
So the last remaining answer is G1. I suppose it's a draw game.
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Re: Project connect

Postby Zugswang » 07 Dec 2007, 22:49

heh yup g1 for draw.
[the nice point is that i tried mustrum on it, and it made a mistake later, so i won it finally :) I wonder if you have any objections to me answering by editing your posts - it saves a lot of space - Teachme2play]
I didn't realize it was so easy to use process of elimination on this one, i remembered this being harder. Here are some more off the top of my head. By the way, my levels will be: easy, medium, hard, and very hard. I'll mark errors with a ? but often I won't mark them or i won't mark all of them, depending on if i think it gives a clue. By the way teach, when you said "ignore the highlight" that made it obvious that D was the correct move, that's the first place i checked lol.

Zugswang #2: Hard
1) D1-A1
2) C1-A2
3) F1-E1
3) F2-C2
4) __
Where should Red move? What will the result be?
Image

[My first idea was F3, but after a while I've decided D2 would be better. Nothing more than a draw.
Zugswang #3: Hard
1) D1-C1
2) G1-B1
3) E1-F1
3) B2-F2
4)__
Where should Red move? What will the result be?
Image

[I suppose C2 reaches draw, and maybe B3 also. E2 wins (for red).]
Zugswang #4: Hard
1) D1-C1
2) G1-B1
3) E1-F1
4) F2-D2
Where should Red move? What will the result be?
Image

That's easy - red perfect play - D3 is very seducive, but B2 comes first.

Zugswang #5: Medium
1) D1-C1
2) C2?-C3
3) E1- __
Black can stop Red from winning. Where should Black move? What will the result be?
Image

Enjoy
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Re: Project connect

Postby Teachme2play » 10 Dec 2007, 17:07

I've made some more: two first are your positions, but more advanced, third is mine. The moving player can reach draw - how?

Task #7

1. D1 - C1
2. F1 - F2
3. C2? - G1!
4. C3 - C4
5. G2 - F3
6. F4 - C5
7. C6 - D2
8. F5 - D3
9. D4 - G3



Task #8

1. D1 - A1
2. C1 - B1
3. F1 - E1
4. F2 - C2
5. F3 - F4
6. C3 - D2
7. B2 - D3
8. D4 - G1
9. E2 - D5



Task #9

1. E1? - B1?
2. F1 - D1
3. D2 - D3
4. D4 - F2
5. A1 - B2
6. D5 - B3
7. B4

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15% concentrated power of will,
5% pleasure,
50% pain,
and a 100% reason to remember the game!
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Re: Project connect

Postby Zugswang » 10 Dec 2007, 20:47

fstal86 aka div0ckrehnee aka entr0py aka Frank :)
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Re: Project connect

Postby Teachme2play » 11 Dec 2007, 16:54

It's G1, isn't it? And since that makes a mirrorable (is it a correct word?) position; I'm almost sure that it leads to a draw.

I wonder if that tutorial you were speaking about is no longer on the internet. I remember reading a very long tut. about 1-2 months ago. Was that it?

I suggest a new way of pointing mistakes alike (but not the same) in chess:
:arrow: let "??" mean that from a winning position player made a move which enables his opponent to win. ("two grades down")
:arrow: let "?" mean, that from a winning position player made a move, which enables his opponent reach the draw, or from a draw position - to a loss. ("one grade down")
:arrow: let "!" mean a move that leads to a draw, when your opponent made a "?" mistake. ("one grade up")
:arrow: let "!!" mean a move that leads to a win, when your opponent made a "??" mistake. ("two grades up")

Task #9
1. A1?? - A2?? (that's back to normal - reds can win again, because yellows lost their chance)
2. D1 - D2
3. D3 - C1
4. C2 - C3
5. D4? - D5!
6. C4 - G1
7. G2 - G3



Where red can reach the draw now? I think the difficulty of it is medium.
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5% pleasure,
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Re: Project connect

Postby Zugswang » 11 Dec 2007, 17:35

Nice job with G1, and yes draw. And i don't know if mirrorable is a word, u could just say symmetrical :razz: There are plenty of symmetrical positions that are wins, though.

Ohhh I think before there were 2 locations of the tutorial, now there is only 1. It's http://homepages.cwi.nl/~tromp/c4.html

The other long one is Victor Allis' thesis: http://www.connectfour.net/Files/connect4.pdf. And then there is mine, which is my profile's homepage :D
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Re: Project connect

Postby Teachme2play » 13 Dec 2007, 21:03

Hey, Zug, don't you have time to think about the last task? Cause I won't believe it's too hard 4 u. :P
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15% concentrated power of will,
5% pleasure,
50% pain,
and a 100% reason to remember the game!
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Re: Project connect

Postby Zugswang » 13 Dec 2007, 21:19

lol oops i forgot you put another task, lol i'll look into it later today.

But you still have to do task #5 by me :p

And you have to register for the tournament, each site needs at least 5 players to form a team. Just play in it, you say you're not good but i don't believe it, hehe and besides it doesn't matter if we lose :D I already know i'm gonna lose :joy:
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Re: Project connect

Postby Zugswang » 14 Dec 2007, 02:53

E1 because it not only blocks the diagonal, it forces yellow to block red's attack and therefore allows red to also block D6 later. Whereas D6 right away would not force yellow to do anything, and yellow could get the diagonal and win.

EDIT: ah i just checked, i didn't notice red's possible diagonal from D1 to G4 which prevents Yellow from moving to E1. So E1 isn't the only answer afterall. D6 and A3 are also good. A3 is in the category of what i call a "delay" move, it doesn't directly contribute to the draw, it just delays D6 for a few moves later (by making Yellow block). Whereas the reverse isn't true: if you go D6, A3 won't be necessary because D6 already earned the draw.

And your new notation is simple yet brilliant! :idea: :neutral: , i will use it and in fact i'll even mention it to Mr. Allen, he might find it useful also. You might have just invented the official notation for connect four 8) what do you think it should be called? "Connect Four Notation"? Or you could call it your last name and you would be famous lol. If I use it for what i write, i'll acknowledge you, and i'm sure Allen will too if he uses it.

probably sometime tomorrow i'll have some more problems
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Re: Project connect

Postby Teachme2play » 14 Dec 2007, 09:20

Hehe, you've passed the sincerity test, although your answer is incomplete. To be frank, every move leads to a draw, except for F1. ;)
And notation? I think it's just a... notation! :) I've been playing, and reading books concerning chess & chess strategy, so chess notation is familiar to me. So i upgraded it a little for the needs of c4.
Tournament? Why not, as long it isn't same, old, cruel, raw 7x6.
This is 10% luck,
20% skill,
15% concentrated power of will,
5% pleasure,
50% pain,
and a 100% reason to remember the game!
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