5-9 stones

Discuss whatever!

5-9 stones

Postby Zugswang » 14 Dec 2007, 16:44

Help me come up with starting positions with 5 to 9 pieces played. The tourney rules (which i just posted) say each team can submit positions for the tourney to use. So like we've been doing in the Project Connect4 thread, let's make problems, but here we can limit it to 5-9 stones. But here not just problems; any position that leads to a difficult game (whereas before we were only focusing on making 1 difficult move to solve). So even if White's move is easy from the position, his next moves might be hard for him.

Aim the problems at the 1st player, like the rules say. If it's a 5, 7 or 9 stone position, that means it's Black's turn, but that's okay. If you have a good moves for Black (meaning, 6th, 8th or 10th moves), specify them.

oh and the positions don't have to start with 1) D1. Errors are allowed (in fact as many as 8 errors). As long as the position gives White the chance of winning (in other words, Black must be the one to make the last error, if any are made, and the error must lead to a loss, not a draw).



RE-EDIT (lol) : everything above is true, i was mistaken when i edited it and said they can't have errors.
fstal86 aka div0ckrehnee aka entr0py aka Frank :)
User avatar
Zugswang
Senior Member
Senior Member
 
Posts: 43
Joined: 02 Jan 2007, 06:07
Location: near Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

1st tournament task

Postby Teachme2play » 15 Dec 2007, 21:51

Since I've lost fraps, and I don't want to re-install it, I can't make a snapshot of the position (use your imagination, or vianiato)

1. B1?? - F1??
2. E1 - F2
3. F3? - C1!

Where now?

And another, similar

1. B1?? - F1??
2. E1 - B2
This is 10% luck,
20% skill,
15% concentrated power of will,
5% pleasure,
50% pain,
and a 100% reason to remember the game!
User avatar
Teachme2play
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 82
Joined: 04 Mar 2007, 13:48
Location: Poland

Re: 5-9 stones

Postby Zugswang » 15 Dec 2007, 23:29

# 1 does not quaify because it can't be a draw position
#2 doesn't either because it has to be at least 5 pieces

But i'll still try them:
#1: unless i'm missing something, White just needs c2 to block the 2nd row and make the 2-piece diagonal. If Black tries E2, White just goes e3 and gets easy win.

[I suppose you meant B3 and F2 instead of B2 and F3 all the time :) - Teach]
#2: This is harder. it looks like a draw because if i try to win by going c1, b2 or e1, it falls apart. When i think draw, my intuition right away says F3. But now i'll test it with logic. Logic says it has to be either F3 or E2, so i just have to eliminate one of those. E2 looks weak because Black can respond with F3 followed by E3. F3 looks good because if Black goes E2, White can undercut the 2nd row by going D1 or C1 (at first site, C1 is probably better), and then from there it looks like White has good options. So F3 is my final answer. And it looks like a draw but it might be a win for White, i don't feel like thinking the whole game out hehe.
I must check. Answer: B2 wins dohhhh. F3 does get the draw though, and i was wrong about only F3 getting the draw, C1 also does. Grr score: Me--1 You--1

ahh i didn't think long enough for B2. I saw the right moves after for White after B2 but i thought, nahh that looks too hard to be a win. That is a nice position and it turns out i had a lot of positions after B2 already saved (some time long ago i had spent hours each day thinking of weird moves like these, then i forgot them all since they're never used in games). Very nice, i'll submit it to the tournament. I'll have to include B2 to make it 5 pieces, but it's still good. But the limits might change so maybe it will eventually allow less than 5 also.

Since I've lost fraps, and I don't want to re-install it, I can't make a snapshot of the position

Do you have Windows? If so, click on the Puissance box, hold ALT and press Printscreen. You can then copy it to Microsoft Paint. Either that or, you can make your own pictures like i do. All I did was copy a program's board to Paint, change the colors, and save the empty board. Then to make a position i just fill in the holes with red and black (it automatically detects the circles and fills the whole circle in) and save that as a different picture. If you want i can give you my empty board picture, once you have that it only takes 1 minute to make a position that looks like mine.
fstal86 aka div0ckrehnee aka entr0py aka Frank :)
User avatar
Zugswang
Senior Member
Senior Member
 
Posts: 43
Joined: 02 Jan 2007, 06:07
Location: near Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Re: 5-9 stones

Postby Teachme2play » 16 Dec 2007, 18:44

If I heard you correctly, on the tournament, you will tell your opponent where to put his 3-5 first counters and vice versa, right? So, IMHO almost every competitor will ask you to start with A1/G1, right? - Like in reversed, the best (theoretically) responce is G1/A1. So I advise you to look closely to such position - try to remember as much continuations, as possible:

1. My opponent asks me tu put in A1 - I ask him to put in G1.
2. G2 -A2
3. A3 (if I understood correctly this is the moment, when players start playing on their own on 5-counter rule - in 7-counter would be also 3. ... - G3, 4. G4. etc.)
So my opponent plays D1 and reaches a winning position.

Try to invent such continuations, that are likely to make him make a mistake, and lose.

BTW. I'v been trying to invent an opening on such rules:
1. I am white (so the game starts with my counter being put by my opponent)
2. It's a 5-counter opening
3. My opponent always puts my counters in A/G column.

I've been through lots of such openings, but every one I develop enables my opponent to win by 3. ... - D1 move.
The goal is to find one that makes 3. ... - D1 lose or get a draw. I think it would be good before the tournament.

Of course, we should also look on these positions, as if we were playing 3. ... - D1, and think of continuations leading to our win.
This is 10% luck,
20% skill,
15% concentrated power of will,
5% pleasure,
50% pain,
and a 100% reason to remember the game!
User avatar
Teachme2play
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 82
Joined: 04 Mar 2007, 13:48
Location: Poland

Re: 5-9 stones

Postby Zugswang » 16 Dec 2007, 19:17

on the tournament, you will tell your opponent where to put his 3-5 first counters and vice versa, right?

the first 5-9 counters, not 3-5. But I will ask the people if they can make it 2-9.

[I suppose you meant B3 and F2 instead of B2 and F3 all the time - Teach]

awww i misread the problem. I read it as B1-F1 E1-F2. The answer to THAT is B2 for a win

Now i will try the real problem lol. Oops nevermind, i accidentally saw the answer, i forgot to turn off the solver in vianiato and it already showed me the solution lol. Grr that one i probably would have got right. This is a good problem also. I'd say the F2 one is slightly harder. Then again, everything's easier when you've already seen the answer lol.

your idea looks good i'll play around with it when i get a chance
fstal86 aka div0ckrehnee aka entr0py aka Frank :)
User avatar
Zugswang
Senior Member
Senior Member
 
Posts: 43
Joined: 02 Jan 2007, 06:07
Location: near Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Re: 5-9 stones

Postby Teachme2play » 16 Dec 2007, 22:03

I believe I'll be avialable everyday between 8-9pm CET+1h (that's 1-2pm your time) as guest #189, so we may do some practice.
This is 10% luck,
20% skill,
15% concentrated power of will,
5% pleasure,
50% pain,
and a 100% reason to remember the game!
User avatar
Teachme2play
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 82
Joined: 04 Mar 2007, 13:48
Location: Poland

Re: 1st tournament task

Postby Wernight » 03 Jun 2008, 07:24

Teachme2play wrote:Since I've lost fraps, and I don't want to re-install it, I can't make a snapshot of the position (use your imagination, or vianiato)


You can simply press Alt + Print Screen on your keyboard to copy a screenshot of the active application (including iP4D) to the clipboard. Then paste it any where (like Paint or FastStone Image Viewer).
User avatar
Wernight
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 299
Joined: 08 Oct 2004, 01:28
Location: France


Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron